DNA Testing in the Grantner Family

Background Information for Understanding DNA

Background Information for Y-DNA Testing

Background Information for mtDNA Testing

Background Information for Autosomal DNA Testing

Click here for a tutorial on Autosomal DNA.

Types of DNA Testing

Microchondrial DNA (mtDNA) testing can be done by both males and females, but the usefulness of this test for determining likely relationships is quite limited. Y-Chromosome DNA (Y-DNA) testing, on the other hand, may have real benefit in determining if two individuals share a MRCA in recent times. Autosomal DNA testing, that is applicable to both males and females, has recently become very popular.

We all inherit, in some manner, DNA from both our parents, who each inherited from both their parents, and so forth back into time. Hence, within our genetic makeup we have information on all of our ancestors. The hard part is pulling that information out.

An autosomal DNA test measures your 22 pairs of autosomal chromosomes, which are the chromosomes that make up the largest share of your DNA. It is very popular now and is sometimes called a Family Finder" DNA test. The test will find relationships that span 5 generations on both the paternal and maternal sides of the individual being tested. You can discover connections to descendants of all sixteen of your great-great-grandparents!

The Mechanics of Testing and the Grantner Family Project at FTDNA

The actual process of doing the test is quite simple. The participant is sent a kit containing a small brush. This brush is used to collect a sample from inside the cheek. It is then stored in preservative and sent back to the company for lab analysis.

Here are the actual directions for collecting the sample in English and in German.

A Grantner Family Project has been established at Family Tree DNA. If you want to do DNA analysis, there are two good reasons to go through the Grantner Family project: 1) It allows an easy path to comparisons and record keeping and 2) the participants are given a discount over the regular prices.

DNA Testing Within the Family (that I am aware of)

Y-Chromosomal DNA (Y-DNA) Tests

Primary Grantner Tree (Richard G. Grantner)

I, Richard, had my Y-DNA first tested tested in 2008. I started very slowly with just the 12-marker test and then extended it to 37 markers. My father was the first born child of my grandparents and, perhaps more significant, my grandparents were not married until my father was 1 year old. I asked my first cousin to have the 37 marker test. The result of his test indicated a match with me of all 37 markers me. This was a worthwhile exercise since it gave me confidence in the test. It also proved that both my cousin and I are descendants of the same grandfather (and I truly am a Grantner).

My (our) haplogroup was determined to be I2b2. A characteristic of this haplogroup is the positive finding for SNP L38. As a result of this SNP, the subclade is also called I-L38 or simply L38. It is a relatively rare subclade and is most interesting in that it was found in some bronze age skeletons.

In fact, We are Lichtensteiners! Some very old skeletens were discovered in 1986 in Lichtenstein Cave, a Bronze Age archaeological site situated west of the small town Osterode, Germany (south of Hannover). The find included artifacts of the Urnfield culture. Of the 19 male skeletons, 15 were able to be DNA-tested, and 13 of those showed the haplogroup I2b2. The other three SHOWED one R1b, and two R1a. Of the 21 females in the cave, the majority were mtDNA Haplogroup H, with mtDNA U5b the runner-up. No radio-carbon dating was discussed and no metrics were assigned based on the adult remains, which are thought to be about 3000 years old.

The Lichtenstein Cave test results fall into the I2b2-B subclade, so we do not descend from males found in the cave. However, we share a common ancestor. The I2b2-14 (L38-14) subclade is estimated to have split from the I2b2 clade about 4000 years ago. This is the forefather of all of those in the L38-14 subclade. The I2b2-14 subclade is identified by a DYS388 count of 14. DYS388 was not tested by the Lichtenstein Cave research, so we don't know if they were in the cave.

Soon after I upgraded my Y-DNA testing to 67 markers and I got a message from Dr. Stephen A. Ralls. Dr. Ralls, along with Timothy Weakly, is doing research on a rare Y-DNA haplogroup designated I2b2-14. My 67-marker results indicated that I may be in that haplogroup. I ended up extending my Y-DNA test to 111 markers as well as testing certain other DYSs.

It turns out that Dr. Ralls was correct in his initial suspicion. I am indeed part of the I2b2-14 (L38-14) haplogroup. Since Y-DNA is passed from father to son, all of the male descendants of Adalbertuys Grantner have this same haplogroup. Research of the L38-14 haplogroup has so far identified 18 surnames around the world. early research of the surnames assiciated with this haplogroup determind that most were from the Upper Rhine region and nearby areas. The currently known roots of the Grantner family are in Slovakia, so we are clearly an outlier unless some earlier ancestors are found to be from the Upper Rhine River area.

Tibor Grandtner, who did research on the Grandtner Family Branch, was convinced that the Grantner and Grandtner surnames shared a common ancestry. Interestingly, Tibor further believed that the roots of the Grandtner branch go to the Alsace region of France/Germany. This region fits perfectly with Dr. Ralls model that emphasizes the Upper Rhine region as the source.

Haplogroup I is about 16% to 18% of European males but Dr. Ralls estimates that only .04% or .05% of Europeans are in the L38-14 subclade. For the record, the main determiner of the L38-14 subclade is the count of 14 at DYS388 (which gives the name to the subclade).

I have since extended my Y-DNA testing to 500 markers, and most recenly to 700 markers (which is the current maximum available). I have also tested for numerous individual SNPs and STRs, primarily to aid in haplogroup research. The haplotype (the actual 111 marker Y-DNA Sequence) is shown with my record in the Detailed Grantner Family Tree. It can also be found on the I2b2 Project at FTDNA Group administered by Timothy Weakly and Stephen Ralls.

For those interested in more information about the Haplogroup I2b2-14 (L38-14), the following links are provided.

Matyas Grantner Descendants (linked branch)

My 3rd cousin (we have the same Great Great Grandfather) Janos had a 37-marker test performed in April 2010 at Family Tree DNA (FTDNA). We have the same Great Great Grandfather, Mathias (born 1817). I am descended fron Stephanus (István) whereas Janos is descended from Stephanus' brother Joannes (János). FTDNA confirmed my cousin's haplogroup as I. FTDNA does not confirm membership in I2b2 (aka L38) without additional testing above 37 markers. However, I2b2 can be typified as belonging to the I group by having DYS455 = 10, DYS454 = 12, and 19-19 at YCA as modal values. The haplotype of his test matches all 4 of those criteria so I am certain that he, like me, is I2b2 (L38).

The 37-marker haplotype was a match to mine except that his value for FTDNA Locus 34, DYS CDYa, was off by one point. Based on the 36 of 37 match, FTDNA makes the following calculations:

FTDNA also says this regarding a 36 of 37 match:

Distance: 1 - Tightly Related
36/37 match: You share the same surname (or a variant) with another male and you mismatch by only one 'point' at only one marker--a 36/37 match. It's most likely that you matched 24/25 or 25/25 on a previous Y-DNA test and your mismatch will be found within DYS 576, 570, CDYa or CDYb. Very few people achieve this close level of a match. Your mismatch is within the range of most well established surname lineages in Western Europe.

The mismatch between Richard and the Janos Grantner Branch is in the DYS CDY. This DYS is known to be very fast mutating. Ken Nordtvedt is the recognized expert on Y-DNA Haplogroup I. He has determined Haplogroup I Modal (normative) haplotypes that he calls the "Founders' Haplotypes". It is interesting to note that his modal haplotypes do not even include DYS 576, 570, CDYa or CDYb, the four markers mentioned in the above FTDNA quote, presumably due to their volatility. It is not possible to determine, without DNA testing of others, whether the slight mutation in CDYa occurred in the Stephanus branch or the Joannes branch. Since the MRCA, for both Janos and me, is Mathias (b. 1817), it is certain that the mutation must have occured with either Stephanus (my great grandfather born 1841) or Joannes (Janos' grandfather born 1856) or one of their male descendants. For simplicity, I have assumed that the mutation occurred in the Joannes branch, specifically, with Janos Grantner (born 1947). In the Detailed Family Tree, the haplotypes for Richard and Janos are shown in a Note with their record.

Bottom Line: DNA testing has shown, with a high probability, that 1) Janos Grantner (born 1947) and Richard Grantner (born 1945) share an MRCA in the relatively recent history; 2) Janos Grantner is of the haplogroup I2b2 (Lichtensteiners), and most certainly I2b2-14. Later research and documentation shows that Janos and Richard are both descended from Mathias Grantner (born 1817). More specifically, Richard is descended from Mathias' 2nd born child, Stephanus/István (born 1841) and Janos is descended from Mathias' 9th born child, Joannes (János (born 1856)

Anita Grantner Branch - (unlinked branch)

A member of the Anita Grantner Branch had a 25-marker test performed in November 2009 at Family Tree DNA (FTDNA). FTDNA confirmed his haplogroup as R1b1b2. There is no correlation between this haplotype and that of main Grantner tree. Assuming that there is a direct male descendancy from Johann Grantner (born about 1900), this haplotype applies to all the descendants of Johann Grantner. The haplotype is shown in the Detailed Family Tree and in the Anita Grantner Branch. See the record for Johann Grantner.

This branch is located in Germany. It would be very interesting to get Y-DNA test results from other German Grantner families.

Haplogroup R is one of the two branches of the mega-haplogroup P. R originated approximately 30,000 years ago in Central Asia. It has two main branches, R1 and R2. R1 spread from Central Asia into Europe. Meanwhile, R2 spread east into the Indian subcontinent. Population movements have brought small numbers of both southward into the Eastern African Levant. The R1b1b2 group reached prominence on the Iberian peninsula (Portugal and Spain) about 20,000 to 30,000 years ago and remains the most prevalent subclade for R1b Europeans of today.

Future Y-Chromosomal DNA (Y-DNA) Tests

DNA analysis for genealogy is a relatively new but rapidly growing field. I would like to see testing done in all of the "un-linked" branches to determine which haplogroup they are in. It is getting very difficult to find "paper" evidence of linkages prior to the 18th century. The evidence may not even exist. DNA provides another way to link branches. The rare haplogroup of the main Grantner tree coupled with the relative uniqueness of the Grantner surname implies that all Grantner's of haplogroup I2b2 likely have a MRCA in the relatively recent past.

With the discovery that the Anita Grantner branch is of haplotype R1b1b2, it will be interesting to see how many Grantner branches fall into that group.

The test I am most interested in is a Y-DNA test within the Tibor Grandtner branch. Tibor was quite certain that the Grantner and Grandtner trees shared a common ancestor. Y-DNA testing can readily prove or disprove that suspicion.

I strongly encourage male "descendants" to utilize the Grantner Family Project at Family Tree DNA. This will greatly facilitate comparisons and record keeping. The Project also provides discounts for the tests.

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) Tests

Richard G. Grantner (Primary Grantner tree)

I had my mtDNA tested in December 2008 through Family Tree DNA. This test was upgraded to a full sequence mtDNA test in June 2010. The mtDNA Haplogroup is determined by FTDNA to be U5a2e (The defining mutations for U5a are 14793G and 16256T).

Haplogroup U is subdivided into Haplogroups U1b to U8. Haplogroup K is a subclade of U8

U5 is among the oldest mtDNA haplogroups found in European remains of Homo sapiens. The age of U5 is estimated at 50,000 years but could be as old as 60,500 years. Approximately 11% of total Europeans and 10% of European-Americans are in haplogroup U5. The presence of haplogroup U5 in Europe pre-dates the expansion of agriculture in Europe.

Bryan Sykes' popular book The Seven Daughters of Eve calculated that it arose 45,000-50,000 years ago in Delphi, Greece and named the originator of haplogroup U5 Ursula. However the details related to location and age are speculative. Barbujani and Bertorelle estimate the age of haplogroup U5 as about 52,000 years ago, being the oldest subclade of haplogroup U.

In 1996,Bryan Sykes of Oxford University first sequenced the mitrochondrial DNA of Cheddar Man (found in Gough’s Cave in Cheddar Gourge in Somerset, England), with DNA extracted from one of Cheddar Man's molars. Cheddar Man was determined to have belonged to Haplogroup U5a, a branch of mitochondrial haplogroup U. U5a, the specific haplogroup of Cheddar Man, is known to be the oldest truly modern human (not Neanderthal) mtDNA haplogroup in Europe.

The mtDNA haplotype, along with more information on the haplogroup, is shown with my record in the Detailed Grantner Family Tree. Since mtDNA is passed from mothers to their children, all the direct female descendants of Ludmila Nedela (born about 1825) have this same mtDNA. The mtDNA is also passed from mothers to their male children but males cannot pass it on to their descendants.

Here is an article on The Peopling of Europe from the Mitochondrial Haplogroup U5 Perspective.

Descendants of Aleksandra Unknown-Nyczporuk

My wife is a descendant of Roman Nyczporuk (and his spouse Aleksandra with an unknown surname). She had her mtDNA tested through Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) and it was determined that her Haplogroup is H5a1a. Bryan Sykes named this haplogroup Helena. Patti's 1st cousin also had her mtDNA tested, at the now discontinued Genographic Project of National Geographic. The lab that actually processed DNA samples for this Project was FTDNA. Not suprisingly, her Haplogroup was determined by FTDNA to be H.

Haplogroup H is a descendant of haplogroup HV. The Cambridge Reference Sequence (CRS), the human mitochondrial sequence to which all other sequences are compared, belongs to haplogroup H. Several independent studies conclude that haplogroup H probably evolved in West Asia 30,000 years ago having arrived in Europe 20-25,000 years ago, spreading rapidly to the southwest of the continent. This would make its arrival roughly contemporary with Gravettian culture. They are also coincident in that the spread of subclades H1, H3 and the sister haplogroup V reflect a second intra-European expansion from the Franco-Cantabrian region after the last glacial maximum, 13,000 years ago. Haplogroup H is the most common mtDNA haplogroup in Europe. About one half of Europeans are of mtDNA haplogroup H. The haplogroup is also common in North Africa and the Middle Easy. The majority of the European populations have an overall haplogroup H frequency of 40%–50%.

Bryan Sykes named this haplogroup Helena.

The mtDNA haplotype, along with more information on the haplogroup, is shown in the Detailed Grantner Family Tree. Since mtDNA is passed from mothers to their children, all the direct female descendants of Aleksandra Unknown (wife of Roman Nyczporuk) have this same mtDNA.

Future mtDNA Tests

mtDNA testing can be done through the Grantner Family Project at Family Tree DNA. The Project provides discounts for this test. I will include the results in our family tree if they are provided to me.

Y-DNA and mtDNA testing benefits many family members

Since Y-DNA is passed from father to son, all of the direct male descendants of an individual (say Adalbertuys Grantner - born about 1760) have basically the same Y-DNA. I say basically" because some mutations may have occurred over time, but they will be few in number. Hence, if any male in the descendant line has his Y-DNA mapped, it will apply to all males in the descendant line. That is, it is essentially a waste of time and money for a male to test his Y-DNA if it has already been tested by some other male in the same descendant line. In fact, if he does test it, and it comes out different, it means there was a break in his male ancesteral line; either an adoption or an illegitimate (different father) birth. Since I have had my Y-DNA tested, it applies to all of the direct male descendants of Adalbertuys.

In the Detailed Family Tree, the Y-DNA haplotype is shown in a Note in the record of the person who had the Y-DNA test; for example, Richard Grantner (born 1945) and they have the flag "Y-DNA Info". I then use flags to indicate the DNA haplotype for individuals; for example, all of the male descendants of Adalbertuys Grantner (except Janos and his male descendants) have the flag "Y-DNA: see Richard Grantner (b. 1945)". Janos and his male descendants obviously have the flag "Y-DNA: see Janos Grantner (b. 1947)" and the haplotype for Janos is shown in a Note in his record.

Since mtDNA is passed from mothers to their children, all direct female descendants of a woman will have the same mtDNA. Note that a male also receives mtDNA his mother but he, of course, can not pass that mtDNA to his children (the children will have the mtDNA of his wife). I have had my mtDNA tested. It is of course the same as my mother, and her mother, and her mother, etc. It is also the same for my sister and brother. Hence, my sister's daughters, and their daughters all have the same mtDNA as me. However, my daughters' mtDNA is the same as my wife's (who also has been tested). My wife's mtDNA is therefore passed to my daughters, my granddaughters, their daughters, etc.

As for Y-DNA, I indicate include the mtDNA analysis in a Note in the record of the person who had the test (and they have a flag "mtDNA Info"; for example, Richard Grantner (b. 1945) or Patti Johnson (b. 1944). Also, as with Y-DNA, I indicate which people share the same mtDNA with a flag; for example "mtdna: see Richard Grantner (b. 1945)" or "mtDNA: see Patti Johnson (b. 1944)".

Autosomal DNA (discussed below) on other hand is unique to an individual. It all depends on what they inherit from their parents.

Autosomal DNA Tests

An autosomal DNA test measures your 22 pairs of autosomal chromosomes, which are the chromosomes that make up the largest share of your DNA. It is very popular now and is sometimes called a "Family Finder" DNA test. Many companies are offering this test including Family Tree DNA (FTDNA), 23andMe, MyHeritageDNA, and Ancestry.com. Probably the main purpose of autosoal DNA testing is to determine your ethnic makeup. Individuals get 50% of their DNA from their father and 50% from their mother Further, the 50% is random. Therefore, each sibling will get a different set of DNA from each parent (except for identical twins). If the parents are "pure" iin their ethnicity, say one is 100% Asian and the other is 100% European, all children will be 50% Asian and 50% European. However, most modern individuals are not "pure" and their children will receive a random set of ethnicities from each parent. It is unlikely that seperate siblings will receive identical DNA from trheir parents.

Some autosomal DNA tests (23andMe) try to determine individual traits (eye color, height, etc.). Some people think it is fun to see if they match the "predictions". Some also try to give predictions of certain genetic disorders. In this case, they usually give an option for their clients to not see this information. Note that this genetic "makeup" is unique to autosomal DNA; it is not derived from the sex-related DNA (Y-DNA or mtDNA).

I had my autosomal DNA tested through both FTDNA and ancestry.com. DNA reults are continually being updated as more and more samples are obtained. This seems to be particularly true for autosomal DNA testing which is so popular now.

As of December 2020, my results from FTDNA indicate that my ethnicity is 100% European. That is broken down further into 80% West Slavic (totaly expected since my parents were born in Slovakia and east Moravia); 12% Greece and Balkans (probably more ancient); 8% Ireland (probably Viking in line with my Y-DNA); and trace results from Malta.

The resuls from ancestry.com, as of December 2020 are similar: 100% European, further broken down to 82% Eastern Europe and Russia. The 82% is broken down to two more recent areas: 1) Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and Lithuania with the most recent area being Malopaska and the Tatras. Malopaska and the Tatras is an area just south of Krakow that includes the town of Biala (Bielsko-Biala since 1951), which was the birthplace of my paternal grandmother. 2) Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania with the most recent area being Hungary and Slovakia. Germanic Europe is 10%; the Baltics is 6% and the Balkans is 2%.

My wife Patti also had her autosomal DNA tested through FTDNA. The results as of December 2020 are: 99% European (Don't know what the other 1% is; I suspect it is round-off error). This is further broken down to 31% East Europe; 30% British Isles; 20% West and Central Europe; 10% Southeast Europe; 8 % Scandinavia and trace results from Finland.

Patti also had her DNA tested at ancestry.com. The results there, as of December 2020, are: 43% England and Northwester Europe (particularly from The Midlands; most particularly from the West Midlands. This makes sense since her paternal grandfather was supposedly from Birmingham); 37% from Eastern Europe and Russia (her maternal grandparents are from Ukraine); 11% from the Baltics; 4% from Germanic Europe; 2% from Wales; 2% from The Balkans; and 1% European Jewish.

It is claimed that autosomal DNA is useful for finding family members. I have not found that to be the case. Indeed, known family members show up as close mathches, and if there is a "lost" cousin, I suppose a match notification may be useful. However, it is difficult to determine the relationship of an "unknown" individual that shows as a match. I have not yet found a single new match through autosomal DNA. In fact, the same is true for mtDNA matches.

I think that mtDNA is best used for haplogroup identification and autosomal DNA is best used for determining ethnic makeup. It is a different story for Y-DNA. Not only does Y-DNA determine a haplogroup, it is also very useful in determining if individuals with common surnames are related. Of course, mtDNA can also be used for verifying a relationship but it is seldom used for that (mainly because each generation of mother has a different surname).

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